ASSP’s Chief Executive Officer:

“The One Constant in Safety is Change”

Jennifer McNelly is the Chief Executive Officer of the American Society of Safety Professionals. A responsibility she assumed in August of 2018. She leads a staff of 75 people working on behalf of 39,000 safety and health professionals around the globe.

Jennifer has 30 years of association, government, regulatory and business experience. Among her past roles, she was previously President of the Manufacturing Institute. She also served at the U.S. Department of Labor as Director of the Business Relations Group and Administrator of its Office of Regional Innovation and Transformation.

 

Listen to the complete interview

 

Interview transcript

Jennifer, thank you for joining me today. What was it that personally attracted you to the field of safety?

Thanks for having me on today and that’s a really good question. I have a fairly eclectic background that represents public and private sector, as well as association leadership and what drew me to the American Society of Safety Professionals is truly the mission: working together for a safer, stronger future. I wake up every day and have a noble purpose. Our 39,000 members across the globe walk into the world of work, every single day with the goal to send everybody home at the end of their workday. So that’s really what drew me to safety.

 

I know that some people when they talk about why they’re in safety, they maybe were in an accident or they escaped an accident or they had a friend or family member, something like that, is there a particular story of a life lost or a life saved that stands out in your mind as kind of symbolic, for why you lead the ASSP?

I can think of two examples and I will first say I am blessed that it has not landed on any member of my family individually or individuals that I have worked with, actually with the exception of active shooter and carjacking early in my career. So there’s one right there that I can think about in how you can communicate to a team member that somebody else isn’t going to show up the next day. And that weighs heavy on one’s heart.

I’ll share two examples. I had a conversation early on in my tenure here at ASSP with a member of our emerging professional’s group and we talked a little bit about their participation as student members, and then dropping out a little bit early in their career, and being back and highly engaged. And I asked what caused that gap. And it truly was the weight of the job every day.

You know safety professionals go home being responsible for what happened that day. They wear that—I call them the heartbeat of the society—they wear that on their shoulders and that’s a lot. In some cases, they may be the only safety professional. And actually, one of my regional vice presidents just this week shared a story with me of his twenty-six-year-old self having to be the individual that communicated on behalf of the company to a family whose… member of the family had been injured. Forever in his mind is that experience.

There are very few jobs in which you go home at the end of the day and that visual is in your mind’s eye, forever. And that’s a really big weight to carry on behalf of a company, on behalf of a profession. But what I have found is the strength and fortitude of our world safety professionals is truly admirable. And my responsibility is to help make them better, to help them do their jobs better. But they’re on those front lines every single day.

 

I do notice when going to the conference that there is an interesting personality to a number of the people. There is an intensity and a seriousness to them—certainly, they can have fun and all that, but when they start talking about their work more so, maybe than in other professions, they get real intense real fast. Have you seen the same thing?

I have actually. And I did have the honor of attending my first safety conference earlier this year, Safety 2019. I imagine as the new CEO I was running around all the time, but I took time on Tuesday afternoon at 4:15 to step into my first learning session. Not that I hadn’t been to general sessions or some of the larger… but this was on online learning and its impact in safety—4:15 in Louisiana on day two of the conference and it was standing room only and I was one of the ones standing in the back of the room. They take their profession and the skills that they need very serious, very serious.

 

It strikes me that this year, 2019, is a really—dare I say—weird time. As autonomous vehicles hit the road, as technology changes, we seem to be trying to determine the division of responsibilities and the rules of the road. There’s this danger that the confusion could cost lives as it did in Tempe, Arizona early last year when an Uber self-driving vehicle ran over and killed a pedestrian. How do you see this issue resolving? Do we need systems that allow better communication between the machines and the people? Or do we just need to turn over all the driving to the robots?

Boy, that is a real-time question in today’s world. As technology continues to integrate into every part of our lives and ASSP has published a technical report on autonomous vehicles, I will say that part of my lens is influenced by an opportunity I had about five years ago. I was invited to a conference in Silicon Valley with our nation’s thought leaders on technology and autonomous vehicles happened to be one of the topics that were discussed.

I was there representing the voice of manufacturing and the changing skills of the workforce. But I had the opportunity to listen to experts from top companies as well as top universities that were at the front end of this activity. What gave me comfort for good or bad in today’s time is learning becomes instant in a world of big data and that’s really scary, it brings up a whole different set of ethics issues. But in the context of being able to mitigate risk, when learning is not just at the speed of one individual but the power of all individuals, you’re going to get to a safer point. How you balance that, whether or not we have the infrastructure and are ready, I think that’s a different question.

 

And it’s going to be a little complicated in-between as we sort things out, right?

Oh it absolutely will be complicated in the middle. And I think it’s a human readiness and an infrastructure readiness. What I learned from the experts in the room was the capability of autonomous vehicles has been there for a while. What’s different is the interconnectivity of data and information.

And that really… when they talk about Big Data, Industry 4.0, IoT whatever you want to use in that context, but it is the open access to information. I think we have a lot of grappling to do in the context of how data gets shared, what it means from an ethics/privacy perspective. And what it means in the bridge between public sector data and private-sector data.

I mean just take roads themselves, the infrastructure associated with it, and the building movement around private toll roads, for example. So we have a lot to get from here to there that require good information, good understanding, strong analysis and then a policy climate that ensures everybody remains safe.

 

You’re one of the hosts of the WAM podcast, I listened with particular interest to your discussion about women in safety with Dr. Katie Schofield at the University of Minnesota Duluth. It got me thinking. But a question: what do you think are the three, four, five aspects about safety as it relates specifically to women that are in most need of improvement today?

So we had the opportunity with our Women in Safety Excellence group and ASSP and a number of experts to host a women’s summit last fall. And actually, the August issue of PSJ, Professional Safety Journal, is focused on a number of these issues. Within the context of where we think focus needs to happen, it falls across three big categories and I’m happy to unpack any of them.

First and foremost, the role of women in leadership roles in safety. And part of that has to do with diversity and inclusion, representation of the workforce, and the need to have a more diverse safety workforce representing the total workforce. We have a changing demographic and understanding what the barriers are to advancement, how we help ensure we’re removing roadblocks, but part of that is also lifting up and reflecting the total workforce, so the role in leadership.

The second was truly a thoughtful discussion around personal protective equipment. And actually, we have a working group working on a technical paper that will follow up to the summit. But ensuring… I think PPE is an important issue for everyone. It just happens that this particular lens is looking at the difference, and the term I heard several times at the conference, was “shrink to pink”. It’s not just about making things smaller, it’s about making sure that things fit right for workers and how we do that. And if we can help amplify that and support all workers, that’s a really good thing.

The last is truly the changing landscape of the world that we live in that sits hard in my heart every day which is the role of workplace violence. We are at a different time today and workplace violence disproportionately impacts women in the workforce, therefore, how do we make sure everybody’s safe?

 

The question about personal protective equipment, it strikes me that that’s really one—you kind of alluded to this—it strikes me that it’s really a question of individualization that, because most PPE traditionally has been built around men’s frames, disproportionately affects women but doesn’t exclusively affect women. We’ve all had situations where we can’t get something that we need to fit the way we would like and yet, in this case, it’s affecting women disproportionately so.

I think it’s affecting workers period. I believe if you look at size, shapes, demographics, we are not a one size fits all workforce. Therefore, I don’t know if disproportionately but certainly there’s an example associated with that, but I think it’s important for everyone to have access to the appropriate personal protective equipment.

 

That does seem to be an area where the suppliers are catching on though. Is my perception correct? I just see a lot more advertisement on the showcase floor of Safety 2019, seemed to hear a lot more conversation and a lot more options around making sure that the equipment fits the individual. Is that your perception as well?

I do believe that there is increased access. It’s how we then translate that to procurement decisions within business operations that we need to continue to support. Actually, the Women in Safety Excellence team did a fabulous fashion show at Safety 2019.

I had the opportunity to see one of them and there are some really good options out in the marketplace. And ensuring that workers know those options are available, if they’re the ones making the purchase, and making sure procurement officers understand what’s available in the marketplace and the importance of having the right fit.

 

Let’s switch gears just a little bit, accidents are sometimes chalked up to bad luck. Do you believe in bad luck?

No, I believe that we’re all human. By nature, humans make mistakes and that’s ok. That’s what makes us unique and human. Therefore, I don’t believe in bad luck. I do strongly believe in ensuring and accepting that to err is human, therefore do everything that we can to mitigate any impact associated with error.

 

In Minnesota, we just passed, or it just went into effect, a law making it illegal, as in many other states, to pick up your phone while you’re driving. It’s just strange how people continue to fiddle with their phones while driving. Do you have a theory as to why phones in cars are such a safety issue, why so many people fail to realize what a hazard it is to manipulate their phones while they’re driving?

Well, I think everybody thinks we can multitask and I believe the data shows that is really how one’s brain works. My phone sits in the back seat so that it’s not a distraction. The “I’m driving” pops up and I don’t understand… and maybe it’s a cultural issue around the speed and access of information and responsiveness, but when I see it, I move away from the driver.

I was actually rear-ended a long time ago by somebody that was distracted. In this case, it was a social conversation that I’m looking in the rear-view mirror, I’m watching them laughing, I’m watching them not paying attention and boom the next thing I know I’m getting rear-ended.

And I think the roads are dangerous enough, we shouldn’t be contributing to that and I think having good practices surrounding texting laws, you know, it’s common in a lot of states today. But I think everybody thinks they can do everything at once and frankly we just can’t.

 

Having raised three teenagers, it’s interesting to me having helped them learn how to drive, how they would not have touched their phones at all when they were fifteen with their learner’s permit. And how we as a species can get used to going 60 miles an hour and be really comfortable with that and then be comfortable reaching over for our phone. It’s really quite a phenomenon don’t you think?

I do and I’m the driver everybody avoids because you know I’m going the speed limit, I’ve got my seatbelt on and I’m not going to rush in and out. Wherever I’m headed, it is more important that I get there then that I respond to whatever is going on around me on my phone or on the road. I’ve got to be paying full attention.

 

You mentioned rushing, do you think that that’s kind of a deep root cause of all of this? That we over-schedule ourselves? That for whatever reason, we just decide we have to do more and go faster when maybe we don’t?

I think there probably could be some elements of are we all rushing, but if you think about the next generation, the—what are we calling them—Gen Z now or the Echo generation, they have only known digital connectivity. It is essentially an extension of themselves. Therefore, I’d be curious to see over time whether or not—again, if it’s always been a part of me then why isn’t it always a part of me? Why would this circumstance be different than every other circumstance?

So, I don’t know that I can forecast into the future, especially as technology continues to be integrated further into vehicles. I will tell you, back to the earlier question on autonomous vehicles, I’m going to be the passenger that’s happy to give up the steering wheel.

I don’t need that level of control if somebody else is going to keep me safe. I hate to equate it to the Acela Express train – Amtrak between New York and Washington, but if somebody else can get me there and I can still be productive, I’m going to take that option every day of the week.

 

I have ridden that train and you can get a lot done while going between those cities, it’s a nice thing. Hey, I was reading Steven Pinker, the Harvard Psychology professor’s latest book Enlightenment Now. And there was kind of a little surprise in the midst of his writing about progress, he’s got a chapter in there about safety. He concludes that we are now living in the safest time in history and he argues that, I’m quoting here, “humanity’s conquest of everyday danger is a particularly unappreciated form of progress. Though lethal injuries are a major scourge of human life, bringing them down is not a sexy cause. The inventor of the highway guard rail did not get a Nobel Prize, nor are humanitarian awards given to designers of clearer prescription drug labels. Yet humanity has benefited tremendously from unsung efforts that have decimated the death toll from every kind of injury.” I’m curious to get your reaction. Do you agree is the work of the safety professional underappreciated?

I don’t know if I would use the term underappreciated. Misunderstood. You react when the incident happens, not when everything is fine. I mean it’s part of that noble leadership and courage that safety professionals have, they are unsung heroes because people are going home at the end of the day. I do think it should be highly celebrated every day of the week. They are heroes.

 

What do you believe is the future of safety, for example, how do you think the conversation at ASSP’s Safety 2035 will be different from what was discussed at Safety 2019?

I love to think about the future. I think we’re at an amazing point in time today. The accelerated pace of change, it’s not just technology it’s the rate at which the world around us is changing. Companies like Deloitte talk about individuals having five careers, not five jobs, five careers. Statistics that look at the half-life of a skill being about the same thing, so if you put those two together and assume that the world of work and the workforce turns over every five years, what does that mean for the future of safety.

And then I would say if you accelerate that to the future, I look at safety in its interconnectivity around all that is business. I also think about the growing movement in corporate responsibility and human capital and how I think safety is going to be a top issue and continue to be a top issue in every board meeting. How can you be competitive if you are not keeping your people safe.

I think the one thing that is going to be really critical for the society as we look to the future is our capability and capacity to meet the safety professional where they are and where they need us to be. Everyone’s circumstances are unique and we have to give them just what they need at that point in time. As the pace of change accelerates, how do we make sure we are meeting those member needs? And it can’t be a one-size-fits-all. It has to be customized to the circumstance, to the technology.

I think about the role that innovation plays and innovation is ultimately a human element. So what will happen with technology that improves the world of safety? We can innovate and support that but we also will be on the receiving end of that as the leader of safety within companies. I think it will continue to move into a more interdisciplinary, interconnected function across companies. I think you’ll continue to see the drive across what that looks like from a supply chain ecosystem approach. And ultimately individuals are going to want to invest in, be a part of, and wear the brand of those companies that keep people safe.

 

Do you think we’ll get there in autonomous cars, or better yet this is my Jetson’s question, do you think we get to get there with jet packs?

I think I’d take the car before the jet pack myself. I’d rather have somebody else have that control than me attempt to navigate because you know one dip in the air pocket and… I do think kids today, and if not this generation, the next generation will see the day in which we get there with autonomous vehicles, jet packs… we can’t even figure out the pathway for drones yet. A lot of discussions to happen around airspace and what that means.

 

It would be a great breakout session though, who has right of way at 500 feet, right? You’re speaking at SafeStart’s Human Factors Conference in November, I’m not looking for any spoilers, but if you could give a little preview of your remarks there. Essentially, what’s currently your top priority message?

The one constant is change. How do we prepare to keep people safe in that world? That’ll be my focus. I’m excited about it. I’m looking forward to the conference. But I also like the title of “Human Factors”. And I was just at a BCSP Foundation Inaugural Research Summit earlier this week and everybody talked about research to practice, research to practice, research to practice.

It got to me and my lens was on behalf of our 39,000 members, I need practice to research. What’s going on in the world of work that is hitting them directly and how do I make sure we are providing and leading on the next best solution? So I’m excited about it. Thanks for the invitation, I appreciate it.

 

You know, jet packs aside, it does seem to me that the more fascinating part about the future of safety is what we’re going to discover about our own capabilities and our own psychology, would you agree?

There’s an entire emerging, both on the technical side and through organizations like the Society [for] Human Resource Management, that looks at the psychological side. I do think that the convergence of life happens in the world of work. You don’t show up just as an employee, you show up with the rest of who you are and how that plays out and I am forever cognizant of the ethics associated with that intersectionality.

I am never going to want to put blame on the employee. My question is going to be what are we doing to make sure that we have systems in place that keep them safe. We actually will be talking about the work of twelve months of our Total Worker task force. I just spent three days in Washington at NIOSH—we’re affiliate partners with NIOSH on Total Worker Health.

Across our own membership, it’s varying levels of understanding, whether it is just wellness or it is looking at the total person, but I don’t ever want it to be a barrier to somebody’s opportunity for economic advancement and a job. Therefore I think the regulatory climate and what that means will be really important. But I do think more and more we’re recognizing that intersectionality.

 

Jennifer McNelly, CEO of the American Society of Safety Professionals, I can’t wait for the conference and to attend your speech. We’ve opened up some really interesting topics here that we can continue to discuss there in Nashville. It’s been great comparing notes with you and thank you again for your time.

Thanks for having me Rodd, I appreciate it and enjoyed the conversation.